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Toe?

#1 User is offline   pedrocamp 

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Posted 14 December 2008 - 06:15 AM

Brian,

I have borrowed Landon's (SC) prototype car and have a couple of questions. The toe bar mount/servo clamp plate has slotted holes for the chassis mount screws. Of course this allows for a fore-aft movement of the toe bar which due to the angled knuckle slots will vary toe dependent on position. In my calculations this means that when the mount plate is centered, I get about 2.5 degrees of total toe out. At .5mm forward I get 1.5 degrees toe out. With the plate set full forward, about .75mm from center, I get about .8 degrees of toe out. Should the car have zero toe with the plate centered. Are my drawings incorrect? Did you intend for the slotted mount holes to allow toe change without changing the toe bar itself? I didn't see this mentioned in the manual or setup instructions.

Thanks for your help. Nice job on the chassis by the way. Can't wait to see a production version.

Pedro Campuzano
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#2 User is offline   color0 

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Posted 14 December 2008 - 09:34 AM

Hey Pedro,

I was actually discussing this with Landon earlier. The tierod is designed to let you shift it fore or aft to achieve 0 toe, or up to a small amount of toe out or toe in. As a racer I would only use 0 toe with this chassis anyways, to minimize scrub. I tried out PN, 3racing, Kyosho and ATM knuckles, and designed the tierod to work with PN and 3racing knuckles as I felt those would be the most popular. But as Landon found out, with some knuckles the bar might not have enough range to give you 0 toe -- that much is true. IIRC Landon's car had ATM knuckles, which I think feel gritty. If you could try PN or 3racing knuckles instead I think you'll find that the tierod works as designed. :)
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#3 User is offline   pedrocamp 

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Posted 14 December 2008 - 10:24 AM

I actually did model some PN knuckles which I put in my chassis model. I will have to check my dimensions for those and measure Landon's Atomic knuckles as well. He is wanting to run zero toe but could only get toe out.
Do you plan to offer a wider track front end as well, ala WTF and P28?

Thanks, Pedro
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#4 User is offline   color0 

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Posted 14 December 2008 - 03:40 PM

Should probably check the model again, Pedro. :) I'm running 0 toe right now in mine with PN knuckles and my tierod is identical to Landon's.

As for a wide track front, I've made two for EMU and Flashsp-2, that are +2.5mm offset on each corner. They seem to work pretty well, so if there is enough interest in a wide track front end for the MRCG I will ask PN about making a batch. ;)
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#5 User is offline   hrddrvr 

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 03:40 AM

FWIW, I tried a couple different sets of Kyosho knuckles, and the ATM delrin knuckles. I think some Ks are mounted up now, and the toe out is very obvious even with the mount slid all the way forward. If I can run 0 toe, I can be very happy :D
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#6 User is offline   pedrocamp 

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 07:19 AM

I rechecked my PN knuckle model and adjusted the post offset from the king pin plane by .20mm. I get a 1.50mm inboard offset and 7.50mm aft offset to the knuckle post from kingpin. My model had a 1.30mm inboard offset. These tiny things aren't easy to measure. Don't know if you want to confirm these numbers but they do give zero toe with the plate centered as you said. I will have to check the Kyosho pastic knuckles that were on the car to see if that is why the car couldn't get zero toe.

Thanks for your help, Pedro
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#7 User is offline   color0 

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 12:01 PM

That's about right, Pedro. My tierod mount isn't completely centered but it's close.

Kyosho knuckles cause toe out even on a box stock MR02 so I didn't even think about using those for the design. :oops:

Landon -- I can send you my PN 1.5 knuckles if you want to check dimensions. I plan on getting a new pair of 3racing knuckles to check anyways.
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#8 User is offline   hrddrvr 

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 06:45 AM

I guess I should have checked first, but I thought you would have built the car around MR02 parts, considering it is a conversion kit, right :D

When I get my car back from Pedro, Ill do some checking. I dont have the 3r knuckles any more, but I do have ATM in delrin and alloy, PN in alloy, and Kyosho alloy and plastic. Like I said, I just assumed if there was a problem with stock knuckles, there was a problem with all of them. I have never noticed different knuckles causing varying degrees of toe, but I guess I just missed that.

Thanks for the offer on the PNs, but Ive got some of my own Ill check soon enough.
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#9 User is offline   EMU 

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Posted 22 December 2008 - 10:01 PM

I used Kyosho knuckles on my MRCG pre production. I think my toe is slightly in when the tie rod is forward. I do have a wide front end on mine though, so it may be slightly different.
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