[Quado]

Um...this was an idea that me and BMK aka Enoesiw had come up with in either freshman or sophomore year...or junior year...im not sure...its all kinda vague...any ways the ideas we had were the begining of this project...mainly the name... it contains two types of cheese...without the word cheese tho...(Blue and Goat Cheese)...anyways we started with some binderpaper with some random stuff...mostly vague crap...so i took the good stuff out of that and put it into a notebook where i have added stuff ever since...basically it is my goal to incorperate the best of the best into it with a few bits of my own... idk... i was listening to the song "Ten Thousand Fists" by Disturbed and got an idea to somehow create a game where you could actually control armies of thousands of warriors...all of which are ready to die at a moments notice for you... i even came up with the majority of the features in the game...i could put them up later if theres enough support. But the problem lies in the complexity of a system that could control literally thousands of individual units and run smoothly...so if any one is willing to help and can come up with a solution to that problem then i'll post all the stuff for the game up...but one of the main points is the six races with three unique build systems as well a individual exp system...all your units gain exp for levels and crap like that...

[aotsukisho]

so wait, what exactly do you want?

[Quado]

I guess i just want for the game to be in a basic stage...where some of the key ideas are being show in it...so i guess what i would like to know is if anyone would know how to program an rts or if they know anyone that does...to begin with i hope to just make it as basic as possible like say...the starters in many series like AoE1 and WC1. Very basic and just to work out the race balancing...i would also need help with the whole balancing thing...for anyone who has played an rts knows that the balancing of the different races/civilizations is the key and if that is somehow done perfectly the game is a hit. The closest to this perfection is WC3 and following that is AoE2 they both had some slight unbalances...it was close but not perfect...so for now i would basically like some brainstorming help on that...since that will be the heart and soul to the rts...um....then the programmers...just some names of people who could help would be fine at this point...um...basically the game races consist of six races...humans, orcs(perhaps a name change tho), elves(name), dwarves, naga/lizard dudes/idk, and the undead...the names of the races should have unique names...maybe just put them all in japanese or something idk...and they would all have their own unit creation systems...humans and orcs would follow the stronghold system sorta...they would spawn so many units continually and then those units would be assigned duties manually (unlike in stronghold where you present a task and then it is filled by a waiting unit) anyhoo, the dwarves and the undead would be similar to TA (Total Annihilation) where the unit is started and then can be sped up by the addition of workers to help create the unit...and finally the basic purchase strategy where you just buy the unit is for the nagas and the elves...but the problem lies in the balancing out of the races which is what i neen help with for now...oh yeah and concept artists...i can't draw except for stick figures and yeah...just someone to draw and crap like that if you please...

[Grim]

wouldn't be that good just to write the names on japanese if using an existing word in a different language I reckon you should mix the languages.

Lizardman/naga
Aesheritham (it's slightly misspelled russian with an m on the ending)
Odleman (swedish without the letter ö)
lucertola (on Italian)

just some suggestions on one of the races like the misspelled russian sounds pretty cool in my ears.

This post has been edited by Grim: 03 August 2007 - 09:03 PM

[Quado]

hrmm...the russian one does sound the best so i think i'll go with your idea of mixing race names within other languages...of course this will make it to be like one of those lame jokes that people could find like sommat like...a few years after it comes out...provided it does come out...

anyways like promised i guess i'll throw some more ideas out there...this one pertains to the whole alliance thingy...i have always felt that alliances in rts's should do more than just be allies and give you things like trade routes...but one thing that really irks me is that it gives you nothing more...so...i propose that when you are allied with any given race you get a race specific building which produces a race specific unit...this way it gives you some more help even if your ally sucks...then theres the population bonus...i havent worked the details out just yet but basically it will add population to your alliance units based on the population of the ally that you have the unit for...so say that you are whatever but your ally is the Aesheritham (i love that word) and he has a population of say...400...so i would say that the ammount given for your alliance unit...would be about 100...or one fourth of the allied population...of course im also not sure about the population costs for individual units so bear with me...and thats about it...

Heres the basic line-up for the race ally thingy:
(Keep in mind that all names are subject to change)

Race-Name of Building-Unit

Dwarves-Dwarven Academy-Dwarven Engineers
Elves-Elvin Treehouse-Snipers/Sharpshooters
Humans-Masonic Temple-Squires>Templar (Based on the human spawn system)
Orcs-Tavern-Rogues>Bandits (Based on the Orc spawn system)
Undead-Pyramid-Mummies (May reqire a sacrifice from the host race)
Aesheritham-Dojo-Aesheritham Warrior (comes in assorted flavors-swordsmaster, spearmaster, bowmaster, and martial arts master)

Oh yeah i also wanted to make the Lizard folks or Aesheritham in simlitude to the Japanese culture...you know bushido and all that...just wanna give some tribute...also perhaps the other races could be modeled after some culture as well...

[Enoesiw]

Wow, Quado actually posts?! Then again, he isn't going to college so I guess he doesn't really have anything else to do. ;p (KIDDING!) Anyway, programming isn't that hard, you could probably learn it since you're staying at home for a year before your mission (assuming you ARE going on your mission).

But With the alliance thing, I propose we take it one step further. Allies will be neutral to everyone until you start to "influence" them. However, unlike taking over a culture (as in AoE when you take over the indians or w/e) you mix cultures. However, for the sake of space, limit the number of allies; even 2 allies would make the amount of possibilities insane, unless you only limited allies to work with you and not with other allies... Anyway, the idea is that by creating allies and collaborating with them you would further advance both civilizations, whereas by conquering them, you would not get as full a cooperation with them because of any resentment (which reminds me, coups should be implemented, too). Some races should also have an affinity for other races, as well as a repulsion for other races. But alliances should be crucial to winning, or at least taking the lead.

Names of races: I'll put some thought into this and post them later. (that Aesheritham is hawt)

GFX/programming: Don't worry about the gfx or programming just yet. We need to finalize the theory of the game before we can take it to a programmer. Game design > programming > gfx. The gfx will be the icing on the cake. While the programming is the cake itself, the game design is the mold of the cake. Let's just take this in steps.

Anyway, it's good to hear from you Quado, it's also nice to see Blue Goat (Cheese) isn't completely dead (just hanging in there like chivalry). I'll try to put more thought into this. Maybe when between classes when I'm off for an hour at a time T-T

This post has been edited by Enoesiw: 02 September 2007 - 02:35 PM

[Bass GS]

wow cool, I'm looking forward t oseeing it grow!

[Enoesiw]

Hmm... I MIGHT have someone who can program for us... I'll have to talk to him about it. I'm still trying to decide whether or not I want him to program for us... If we piss him off it could get ugly... This guy is like... UNYO-level hacker (I think)... So yeah, don't piss him off! ;D I could probably find some programmers at my school. We'll see. (Or Unyo could do it try it... something) BTW, the way you have the aesheritham now, they are completely overpowered. They're gonna need a complete retuning. But w/e, we can do that later.

As for the names... I'm still throwing ideas around, but let's try to link a race with a culture. Make it similar, but totally different, and then like grim said mix a word from that culture with english. Example: Elves could be related to the gypsies or something. Then you pull a word from their language that means something that the elves represent, and change it so that it could be discernable, but most people wouldn't know it. It would bring a different kind of twist and personalism to the game. For the class-race tie, I was thinking orcs could be Greek(spartan, not those pansy ass archadians), dwarves could be Irish, lizardmen could be vikings, the undead could be french, the humans could be... idk fk the humans. And of course, the aesheritham are russian named, japanese inspired. Doesn't fit with the whole idea but w/e. If we use these comparisons as a starting point, everything will develop much quicker. Although looking through different languages for a single word that fits and entire race might be difficult. I'll look into this some more.

If anyone would like to add to this, I'm open for feedback and input. I'm also open to suggestions about the race-class tie. Don't throw out a race-class tie because you want to see it in there, but actually have some logic to it. If you want, I can present it on demand. But given the lore behind the classes and some basic history lessons, you should be able to kind of grasp my train of thought... I'm not that far out of it.

FYI: blue goat is just the project name. It will change if by some miracle this gets past the planning stage.

<shonen> read the rules </shonen>

This post has been edited by Shonen: 29 August 2007 - 11:23 PM

[Unyo-kun]

who is this guy? i want to meet this guy if hes really my level, tell him add me on msn. anyway, go for it, and see if you can dig people up.

i'll start programming it now so it gets past that stage too. there are a lot of game engines to look at on the interwebs as well, so we can always do that.

also if you want to do the race-class tie, all you have to do is start writing stories, items, etc.

ALSO I'm still not quite sure what the aim of this project is, but ill see what i can do. Its easy to make game code, but story, gameplay, game style, intutive interfaces, all that need to be made up. if you can imagine it, odds are i can program it, but you better have a DAMN GOOD idea of what your doing, what you want, if it will work out, and IF ITS WORTH IT. Make sure you have an awesome game that people will WANT to play.

The game needs to have an incredibly awesome idea behind it for it to be considered worth of being made. like my project plumeria, i made it because there aren't too many intuitive image sorters out there. its got to be one of those "Why hasn't anyone made this yet?" kind of idea. like "Why hasn't anyone made a decent video editor yet?". Either that or have something really good COMPLETELY change an old genre of games. Think old school tekken compared to SSBM, and how they are different but the same genre of "fighting".

sorry if i'm being rant-ish, i don't mean to. >_< just trying to put into perspective that there are hundreds of thousands of unplayed games out there (no, really. there are tons of games that are somewhat cool but no one plays them), and we have to be better then all of them.

[Enoesiw]

I know that. Do you realize how many people don't know about Maplestory? And that's a fairly popular MMO. Right now the RTS world is dominated by WC3: FT. And if Blizzard holds true to their word, so will SC2. But one thing that most RTS games leave out is the interaction between races. The closest you really get is Heroes of Might and Magic and all those turn-based strategies. But even then the most you could do was take over another civilization and build their units. The actual interaction between cities was never there. I think SC2 might be incorporation something like this, but nothing to the extent I have in mind.

Up until now most RTS games have been seek and destroy. You build your army, seek out your opponent, beat the living fecal matter out of him. That's fun and all, but it gets repetitive. By incorporating this element of cooperation and diplomacy, you can make the game play so much richer. I kind of want to break away from the stereotypical classifications, too.

For starters, each civilization will have a specialization. Like the aesheritham will probably be blade masters, not necessarily weapon masters like Quado has them as. The lizardmen will probably be really physical units. I kind of want orcs to take more of a stereotypical elvish role, and be more nature-y. I'm thinking Elves, normally ranged units like Quado has 'em, could be stealth units or some sort of builder class. The undead would be... I guess your stereotypical swarm class (think starcraft zerg). The dwarves being engineers could be a good idea, i suppose. Although that sounds like it was ripped right out of WC. Dwarves may have to bite the bullet and be smithies again. I can't really think of a role that would fit them and not be stereotypical. Humans, ah the humans. I was thinking of making humans nearly worthless. They would be a conglomerate of all the other races but just be terrible. However, their diplomacy skills would be the best, so they would have an easier time making allies and ninja'ing their technology/specialization. That may be too OP, but this is still the planning stage.

So. Feedback?

[Unyo-kun]

need gameplay details. specific classes and races are good, but they come later.

i need...how to make the skeleton. classes and algorithms are add on, but i need the big idea. how each and every aspect of the game is played. general guidelines. i can't explain it, but thats what i need. what the user controls, and how that affects the game.

[Bass GS]

so you're trying to make a Age of Empires plus Starcraft plus Warcraft thing that doesn't seem to be like any of them? that sounds interesting. will it be sprite based or 3d? are you gonna make it have the game have the graphics more like world of warcraft or more like the old starcraft or age of Empires?

[Enoesiw]

(geez so much time taken up by school and WoW, though my WoW guild died and I'm thinking about selling my account again ) That really all depends on the programming and the gfx. It has a lot to do with size, too. At this point in time I'm not worried about it, but I would like to go with a 3d setup, like WC3. It gives it a deeper feel.

[Quado]

hrmm...okay den...i gots a fast one...kay?

Um first off...may i propose that we first do the race planning before we actually go and make all the little things...

However...we still need to have some sort of tying awsomeness that makes our game stand out from the rest of them...for example warcraft was the original and everything has built off of it...thats its thing...however games since then have had to have little thing to set them apart...WC3 did the hero thing way better than anyone else...by far...AoE3 added in Home Cities and Allies that you had to interact with to get extra bonuses...also we have to keep in mind that SC2 will be haveing the fawsome starcraft theme as well as the uberness from WC3...granted it will be a while for blizzard to actually finish it...since they have focused on other things *cough* WoW *cough* and yeah...so to stay out in front of the pack in as many ways as possible...

we need to determine what the heck will be the new innovations that we will attempt to pull off...?

I believe that allowing for an interaction between players and computer players is the key...at least econimically speaking...so the whole conquring thing is an option...there is a game that has a system similar to this...Stronghold...Two...if you guys wanna try it out give me a call...namely Enoesiw...that is if you re still on this island...are you? anyways call my house...id put the number here but that would be just stupid...we get enough tellemarketers as it is...btw it is in the phone book...if you look at that game i think that you ll get a good idea of what i mean...anyways...o yeah...just torrent an iso for it...duh...anyways...

the market system
allies
some sort of new cool thing

those are wat wee need...and i got a job a t KTA

[Bass GS]

hmm...maybe you could put stuff in from different games as well? not only from that type too. like, have different weapons the people can use? or if they can gain levels?

[Quado]

well...one of the things that i wanna do but now that i think about it is rather hard...is to give every unit an exp system...not like red alert...but like sorta an mmorpg but in rts form...say...um...okay...like each unit would be created and would start at a level zero...so to get promoted or what not...the unit in question would have to gain exp...to make a say...um...iron worker...since there is a chance that we will do the basic resources and then advanced resources...that the worker would have to do some wood harvesting and some building...and then another option would be to put them in a university (max learners 10 ??) and then when they got the required exp in the set categories they would advance...so...they could like...um...get advanced fighters through fighting that could not be gotten otherwise...like say assassins...or bandit lords...anyways...those advanced people would then be your heroes...so to speak...they then would have a list of skills to choose from and would be given points to put in these skills...however they would only be able to choose a certain number of these skills and there would be a cap...somewhere...they could also pick up items and what not...other details to follow...

i thinks that answers the level and weapon question...as for the stuff from other games...there will be certain things that may be similar...but i feel that we should not go out and just take from other games...we gots to make it our own...say for instance the whole hero thing...everyone has their own take on it...just as we will...so there will be things from other games but they will be not theirs but an improvment (i hope) on a good idea...

i think that about sums it up...basically...we want to make a game that incorperates all that was good in rts's up to this point along with a few additions that we believe to be nessicary...

[aotsukisho]

hmm.... keeping track of each unit's exp and level is gonna be hard, not to mention resource-taxing. The player's probably not gonna be able to stay up-to-date with each unit either. A more feasible idea would be from FE, the support system. Staying within a certain perimiter of another unit will strengthen their support levels, if they're compatible (ie. not indifferent to each other). Friendly clans have an obvious link to the support idea, but rival clans can benefit as well (rivalry demands improvement, after all). Only if the units have no interest at all in each other will they not be able to support.

Or you can take it a step further, and have increasing levels of support building for the distance away from the units (either linear or logarithmic). Also, the other thing to consider is how big the time intervals for gaining support levels will be (large steps slowly, or small steps quickly).

[Quado]

hrmm...i think that you're on to something there...letsee...first off though...let me say this...the building thing has been done...in Empire Earth...at least to some extent...however...perhaps the player him/her self can gain exp...by having people that do certain things they would gain an overall stat...production...whatever...bonus...granted that was somewhat done in AoE 3...but i propose that all exp would be in direct relation to what they do in the game...the only problem with that is that the whole thing would need to be balanced...so that new players could compete with older players and older players could get something for their hard work...not to mention make it fair enough so that people arent compelled to cheat all the time...

thats just my two cents on that matter...

also...i dont recall if i said this or not earlier (too lazy to read my own posts) but i propose that we design each race after a different civilization...but not make it too obvious...like we could throw in some little...um...inuendos (?) in there to throw the players off our trail...but just as a guideline for the creation of the races...i call dibs on the Japanese for the Aesheritham Aka the Naga... just you know...so thats out there...

also...yesh i know that this is kinda winded but...in response to Enoesiw about the Aesheritham being kinda uber because of their Dojo alliance thing...i think that we can come up with multiple units for your allies to allow you to produce...also...srry...last thing really...that the ammount of your allies that are of the same race would determine which units would be avalible...so basically it would be a grid system for balance and whatnot... but to get the strongest unit...idk...you would have to have say...at least four of something...four just seems like a good number...

and one more thing...if we could create a sort of NPC race or civ for the players to interact with...as well as the computer players...this would be similar to AoE3 in that there would be not indians that you could ally with but there could also be Neutral people that you could trade ally with and so on...there could also be a system in which you could somehow sway the feelings of this race/persons that they would aid you in fighting...like send their own directed guys in addition to the ones that you would get for being their allies...

thats it for now...

[aotsukisho]

I think you can just let the computer take control of one of the normal civilizations.

Like any historical civilization, you could have them specialize in different things. One race could be a woodworking society, so they're good at making buildings and ships, etc. and another one can be a hunter-gatherer, specializing in speed and ability to scrounge food...or something.

Also, I forgot to mention (if you've forgotten), FE's support system isn't indefinite, it maxes out after 5 supports, such a way that you can only get a maximum support with one other unit. If we were to implement this here, a civilization will only be able to fully support one other civilization (and others will take a backseat).

[Quado]

so are u suggesting that we have main and sub allies...an interesting thought...and that would allow u to have an entierly new depth to the whole alliance thing...as for the races specilizing thing...it would be great to have but then there would be the monsterous task of actually going and balancing all the races...of course this is impossible since there would undoubtably be ways of making the given bonuses for the races work to your advantage in a given situation...

perhaps if we were to make the bonus a definite advantage but not so much so that it turns into something where the one race would totally domminate intheir given field...

yeah...

[Unyo-kun]

So, are we ever gonna make this project?

Also, who is this guy? Cmon, I gotta meet him if hes UNYO-level hacker.

[Quado]

um...ive gone ahead and tried to compile all of the information on my laptop in a super secret file...aka the notepad...yeah...its just a file that im adding to to try and add to the massive ness of this undertaking...if anything though, i kan give it to you guys via msn...i think...at least it could work...anyways...i guess well talk later on the matter...w/e... besides, my internet privelages are sparatic at best...

[Bass GS]

I'm looking forward to this too maybe it'll be cool as Nadeshico too. I can't wait!

[Quado]

Here's a rather dated but fullish version of the project...keep in mind its still what it is...in progress that is...

Attached File(s)

•  Project_Blue_Goat__2.13.08_.txt (36.81K)
  Number of downloads: 5

[aotsukisho]

Looking through the txt file nao, it's going pretty well (and there's a ton of ideas contained within too). The only thing I can really suggest at the moment is the formatting, nice ASCII art (really) but most stuff of this type (.txt or .nfo files) are terminal-width (80 characters). If you're gonna have a lot of nested lists, it may be better to put this sort of stuff in a word document (or even an html page) in order for the information to be easy to read.

[Quado]

i was thinking about ways to organize this information...but this seemed the easiest...ideally there should be some hot linking or whatnot...but yeah...i guess i should organize it better...

[Enoesiw]

If any of you were wondering, this project was kind of put on hiatus because Quado, aka dude with less of a life than Eno , has gone on his Mormon Mission. I may try to come up with more ideas and in general work on working out the flaws and if I do I will post them here. First off, I will have to review everything that's gone on, though.

One of the things I was thinking about as I went over the posts in the thread I had not read yet (yes there were posts I had not read, I'm a baddie) was the support system. In a multiplayer game this would pose no real threat because you can communicate to the other person. However if you're playing solo, how would we dictate the AI of the second civilization? If you have a supporting civ that is collaborating with you, how should we program to respond.

Let's say that there's 3 civs collaborating. Taking the support method from FE you can have one civ that's 3/3 with you and one civ that's 2/3, or you can have 1 civ that's 3/3 and two civs that are 1/3, or you can have two civs that are 2/3 and one that's 1/3. Things we need to look into are how they respond to your choices depending on the type of support you have. Maybe a certain society would respond this way to your action if you're 0 or 1/3 but another way if you're 2 or 3/3. Maybe support with one civ will prevent you from supporting another civ because they are mortal enemies.

Basically, we need to flesh out the support idea a little more. How far do we want the support to encompass gameplay. I'm thinking the game should be based upon support because as referred to before, this would really break the mold. Some other games use support as a minor feature to enhance gameplay. I say we take it to the extreme and base gameplay off of it. Ultimately, that would change the fundamentals of the RTS itself.

Knowledge/tech trees. Everyone knows em and loves to hate em. What I was thinking with support and knowledge/tech trees was that the knowledge/tech trees would advance based on support. What I wanted to do was based on your support level, open up a new path. Let's say you're a master metal working civ and your support civ specializes in vehicles. Well after a level 1 support you would be able to make armored vehicles at a slight discount, maybe 5%. Level 2 would entail some kind of advance, maybe faster armored vehicles, and a 10% price reduction. Level 3 would be something really elite, like an armored moving fortress and a 20% discount. Of course since there isn't a weapons specialist in that collaboration it would just be super hard to kill, but not be able to do any damage. Then if you add in the weapons specialist as a level 2 support, maybe your armored fortress can shoot small cannons or something. Now I know this is a lame example, but I hope you grasp the underlying ideas. Whereas most RTS games you need the tech trees only within that certain civ, this would require the collaboration between civs, whether you're sending missives to your co-civ or whether the AI just naturally tries to max your potential together. What I want to do there is have like a response option; have the co-civ "contact" the player via messenger about their potential courses of action and allow the player to input and semi-influence the co-civ which is computer controlled. Of course cohesion to your suggestions would depend upon your support level as well as game status. The only problem I can really foresee with this is the sheer amount of possibilities it introduces. All trees must be independent as well as co-dependent.

I'll try to expand this idea and see if it makes sense. We have one civ. He starts out with 3 choices, whether to master a, b, or c. He goes out and gets minor support from another civ. With the new civ supporting him, he now has options d/e, f/g, h/i, depending on what he chose for a/b/c. He goes out and gets another civ to support him at level 1 and gains options j/k, l/m, n/o for a/b/c, and p/q/r/s for d/e, t/u/v/w for f/g, and x/y/z/a' for h/i. You can see how this would expand. Depending on what civs you get to support you, you have a nearly infinite set of possibilities. One way to counteract this would be to add in a like/hate meter. The more one civ likes/hates another, the more they're willing to collaborate for the common good. Let's say there are two civs that are mortal enemies. If you gain the support of one, the other one automatically becomes your enemy and you cannot get them for support, and if you break ties with the guys your supporting, they will still loathe your for collaborating with their enemies, making it harder to pick up their support. Also if two civs are neutral to each other but highly secretive or something like that, maybe they will only collaborate with you and not other civs, until somehow you could break down the barrier preventing the distrust. So the more you gain their support, the more they're willing to share. Maybe at level 1, they only collaborate with you, but at level 2 they collaborate with another level 2 or 3 and at 3 they will collaborate with the two other level 1s or the other level 2.

As for the individual unit exp, I would say toss this idea out the window. It's nice if you have like "hero" units with exp, but if you're micromanaging EVERY unit in a civilization separately, you're very well likely to go insane. And yes, this does limit the amount of units you can have on the field at one time. Or everyone is just gonna have to have a top of the line super-computer with octa-core processors and 8 terabytes of ram. Okay, maybe that's overdoing it, but you get the idea...

(sorry lost track of where i was because i was leaving work. Now i'm tired. will append later today.)

Also, I could turn all the info into an html doc if i wasn't so darned lazy. I guess taking CS200 and 201 was worth it, lol. Too bad I don't ever use the knowledge.

(And if you're wondering why this post makes no linear sense, it's because there is no linear sense in it. Wrote some parts and went back and enhanced/added others)

[Enoesiw]

(sorry about the double post, but this post kind of deviates from the previous one, therefore I thought it was appropriate to separate the information with a different post, also the beginning might be a little redundant with some of the previous posts by everyone, so bear with it.)

OK so I've been thinking about Blue Goat and the support idea and figured out that before we move any further, if it is agreeable that the game be an RTS based on support, then we would have to flesh out the different races more. If the game is built around the idea that you need to create alliances/treaties or whatnot then we need races that could cooperate or work well together.

Each race must have a different specialization and attribute that makes it separate and makes people want to play them, but doesn't make it too overpowered. For example, in ancient times people were often distinguished by their job. Similarly, certain groups or civilizations were known for their adept skills at something. An example would be a gold-workers society or a master-smith's guild. Even a rogue's guild or assassin's guild. If we base each race off a current or historic civilization then we must decide which of the civilization's traits were dominant and which of them would be easy to pair up with another, or multiple civs.

I really would like to pull away from the stereotypical races, though, or at least change their names so that they feel different. An example of this would be Urgals from Eragon. If you compare them to orcs, they share a lot of similarities: Tribe-based, human-like, obsessed with war and honor, big with brute strength, although they do have some magic. The similarities are there, but rather than just calling them orcs, they were given a new name, thereby creating a new image.

Incidentally, with the Aesheritham this is what we did. Now let's do it to all of them . If we go by the race/civilization pairing Quado already has we have: Elves/Native Americans, Undead/Germans. Not much. Since Aesheritham/Japanese is already done, we need Humans/?, Dwarves/?, and Orcs/?.

Let's start with the orcs, since we have a little of their back story already. Orcs are in general war-loving creatures about the height of a human, but generally much broader. Most typicially, orcs are inherently evil and want the destruction of other races. However, in some cases orcs are rather neutral, although they contain inherently evil individuals. While I would not like orcs portrayed as inherently evil in this game, I do believe they need to revel in war and destruction. As a result this would naturally bring up possibilities for alliances and enemies. But I digress, wikipedia has a nice article on orcs, their origins, and usage of orcs in videogames. It's a rather invaluable article. Now who to tie the orcs to... They have to be war-loving, muscular, and [email protected] Sounds like the Spartans are a really good fit. There ARE some discrepancies, like how they were also intellectuals, but in general I think they fit really well.

Next step would be to filter through the greek language and find some words that represent the orcs and spartans in general. Well I went to some dictionary sites and found that πόλεμοσ (polemos) translates as War or λαό του πολέμου(lao tou polemou) translates to People of War. So Polemite, might also be people of war, if you romanize it. But Polemites doesn't have a cool ring to it. πολεμιστήσ (polemistns) is warrior. βάρβαροσ (barbaros) is obviously barbarian. θάνατος or θάνατοσ (thanatos) means death. δυνατόσ (dunatos), γερόσ (geros), ισχυρόσ (ischuros) meaning strength. ισχυρόσ (ischuros) also means powerful. I'm kind of partial to Ischuros. Anyway feedback would be much appreciated. If you have any other suggestions for names feel free to post them!

[below edit: 11/1/08]

Next we have the Dwarves. Dwarves are characterized as earthly people who are exceptional at working with minerals, ores, and stones in general. They are often portrayed as master craftsman who's work is second to none and admired by all. Dwarves are usually short and stocky with powerful limbs. Since it would be hard to find a real life civilization that was comprised entirely of dwarves, I think that we can disregard this aspect of dwarves and concentrate on what they are known for, their mastery of stone. Thus while looking into it I thought that the Egyptians would be a good fit for the dwarves. The Egyptians erected massive pyramids using massive stones with a fraction of the technology we have today. They were also quite skilled with metalworking and jewelcrafting for their age and time, quite possibly even for today. Egyptians also had beautiful pottery and statues. As for their ties to the earth, Egyptians were able to take advantage of the unique conditions of the Nile river, and even though it never rained in Egypt, they were able to produce an overabundance of crops due to the annual flooding and irrigation systems. Again, there are some discrepancies between Dwarves and Egyptians, but alas, we probably won't find a perfect or near perfect match.

So, a new name and therefore identity for the dwarves. Since the Ancient Egyptian Language was lost long ago, we must make-do with Arabic, since that is the current language of the Egyptians, although they use an egyptian slang version of Arabic. Here are some names I came up with: Tarib Nass or Tarib Sa"b, which means earthy people; Jandal Nass/Sa"b, which means "stone people", Hajar Karim which is "precious stone". Al in arabic is of, so we could also do something like Sa"b al jandal, or people of stone. This has a certain depth to it that I personally like. Of course to shorten it we would do something like Sabal'jandian or something of the like. But the basis of the name would be Sa"b al Jandal. (Note: this is just the romanization of the arabic so that, you know, we actually understand it) This is all I could come up with atm because the translator I'm using is limited (it's very hard to find an arabic dictionary that's free or a translator that does english -> arabic with english pronunciation). And again, if anyone else has ideas on the name or the civilization, feel free to post them. The names don't have to be originated from the language of the civilization, but it does add a nice touch to it. Oh, dwarf in Egyptian Arabic is Qu'zah, and in Arabic is Qazam, both are nice representations.

So we come to the humans. Ah the humans. Your stereotypical jack-of-all-trades. I was thinking about basing humans off Romans. Romans were a very versatile group due to their conquering many nations around them. They were able to gather all the technology and great minds that the various peoples had and use them for themselves. I think that this is a good fit for humans in general because the Romans were a rather diversified group. (more to come later)

[Bass GS]

that's quite a read, Enoesiw! but it sounds good, I spent some time reading it all.

[Quado]

Hey guys, what is up. So i am glad to see that this is still going... sorta. But I think that an underutilized portion of this site is a perfect way to organize all of this. http://digitalcomple...oject_Blue_Goat So the idea is to just play with ideas here in the forum, and then throw it into the organized area that is the digital complex wiki? Sabe? Ill be going through to put what I can into the wiki, but no promises as to how fast it gets there.

I agree with Enoesiw's directive. We should go about discussing the races before we go any further. I would like to free up the Undead, Elves, and Aesheritham for further input. I didn't mean to be definitive about the nationalities that i affixed to them. And, looking back, I'm not so sure that I like the ones that they got put with. Granted, there is the connection between the Russian and the Japanese. That could work, since they are also next to the ocean and the attributes that the Japanese possess seem to fit. But maybe the Chinese would work? Or perhaps Mongolia. Heck, they even use the Russian alphabet there. But all those things aside. But the Elves and Undead, scratch the race pairs for them for now. Ill add more as I put more thought into it.